It’s the Stanley Cup playoff time in the National Hockey League. The question I have is if fighting by hockey players is ethical or morally correct?
Usually, I can’t watch a hockey game all the way through, because inevitably, there is a fight and I can’t stand to watch the gloves off, helmets off, hitting in the head and punching in the face.
Some say its just part of the sport and it’s a way to get the frustrations out (often started by the team that is behind or scoreless). It seems that the officials wait until the fighting players start to slow down before they go in and break it up (because its safer to wait and easier) and then the players who were fighting, go sit in the penalty box and their teams play without them or anyone to take their place.
I don’t understand why it’s even allowed or should I say even tolerated. What does fighting during a hockey game have to do with playing the game of hockey? No one is attempting to get a puck into the net during that time. No one is blocking the puck from going into the goal during a fight. No one is even passing the puck. The game comes to a complete stop. In fact I think the puck is completely ignored during the fight.
The official ruling body doesn’t think there should be fighting, because it is against the rules to fight, and there is a penalty attached if one is caught fighting. The penalty includes five minutes in the penalty box for the players participating in the fight and the team or teams have to play short their players during that penalty time. So the teams are also penalized. If there is a penalty is cannot be considered a part of the game of hockey or at least it is not behavior that should happen during a hockey game.
I will try to refrain from talking about how the penalty for fighting is five minutes and for “misconduct” is ten minutes! This is just not right! Fighting and misconduct are two different rules and penalties. Why they are different, I’m not sure. How misconduct could be “less” of a wrong behavior, I’m not sure. The only sort of concession is that the team has to play shorthanded during the fighting penalty, but not during the misconduct penalty. BUT this is a completely different discussion. Except that society seems to be able to tolerate fighting easier than misconduct. What does that say?
The question is how can fighting be accepted as “part of the game” when it has nothing to do with the game of hockey? “Part of the game” is defined as no suspension and a lesser penalty than misconduct. Why isn’t the penalty as strong as it is with other sports such as football, baseball, and basketball, where the players are suspended for fighting?
Why is it ok to take children to hockey games and let them witness this behavior? Does this not teach them that the behavior is acceptable?
This can seem like such a frivolous subject, but sometimes it’s the little things that the society tolerates that point to bigger issues. I can’t buy the reason that it’s ok to fight during a hockey game because they are just letting off steam. I think that it is ethical and morally wrong.
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You bring up great issues which I agree with. I don't think that it is ok to allow fighting in hockey games because like you said it has nothing to do with the game.
ReplyDeleteI think that by allowing the fighting to happen it not only gets the hockey players riled up but also the fans. As soon as a fight breaks out the fans cheer and shout. I guess it makes them feel that they are apart of what's taking place someway and it's the reason they are attracted to the game.
It's almost a sure thing to witness someone getting slammed against the plastic glass and I think it’s apart of human nature that people enjoy watching violence of this kind. Take for example how popular the sport of boxing is.
I heard that all throughout history, societies have always had events to let out frustration and anger. In the time of the Romans, it was the colisseum where they let out their stress by screaming for or against the gladiators (or Christians being eaten by lions) and in American history, there were the witch burnings in Salem. I heard that's what the big sports like football, etc., are for us today. The fightings in the hockey games, the pushing and shoving in football, and other such actions, are they really necessary for the human mind and culture? It really makes me wonder if this were a world full of women would it still be the same? If it can be proved psychologically that this kind of outlet of frustration is necessary, then maybe this way of sports can be acceptable. But otherwise, I think human beings should be capable of finding less barbaric ways of letting go of stress and frustration.
ReplyDeleteHockey is not a game that I grew up watching, but I have recently seen some college games that I enjoyed. The reason? No fighting.
ReplyDeleteLike you, Joyce, I have never been able to tolerate professional hockey because of the fighting. Not only do I think that it is tolerated, I think that it is encouraged. And that fighting that the children see many times is not even contained on the ice, but spills into the stands. And it filters down to the leagues that children play in, involving parents and coaches.
Just getting out their frustrations? Nice try, but I don't buy it.
I agree with your blog. My church used to attend a few games as part of a youth group fundraiser. One of my frustrations with the games were actually the referee & crowd mentality. There seems to be a pattern, where the fights during the beginning of the game are broken up quickly by the referees. But as the game progressed, I noticed the referees were slower to stop the fights and if they did it too soon, the crowd would actually boo them. What is wrong with us when we actually boo someone who is trying to stop a fight! Would we boo a police officer if he/she were stopping a gang fight on the street? NO! So, I believe it's not okay to condone fighting at anytime- even if it's in the setting of an organized professional sport. Thankfully my church does not attend hockey games anymore. And while I have not watched a game in a while, it sounds like things haven't changed.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Joyce, for your blog. As a sports lover, I find that I can watch just about any sport other than professional hockey, specifically due to the fighting. A colleague of mine, also a sports fan, took the time to watch the referees/officials during different type of team sporting events. After a significant period of time, she concluded that none of the team sports is entirely violence free (not talking about the actual playing of the game--e.g. as Jennifer stated the shoving in football). However, her second conclusion I find quite interesting: her observations led her to note that often the body language of the officials either deterred or opened the gate for fighting. In baseball, the umpires get fined if they bring their hands in front of their bodies during times of conflict. Thus, you'll see a baseball umpire put hands behind the back and go chest to chest with the person arguing. In football, you find the referees focusing on the actual play and adherence to the infractions during interaction among players and working with team members to keep other players who are upset in check. The list goes on with the exception of hockey. She found that the referees did not use body postures that typically deescalate conflict in how they intervened. As a result, she attended baseball umpire school to really learn how to use her body to deescalate heated situations. She then taught parents of teens many of these techniques and surprise, surprise, the parents AND teens reported increased capacity to resolve conflictual situations without physical violence and even with reduced verbal violence.
ReplyDeleteSo, I don't agree with the "letting off steam" explanation because too many other approaches have proven useful throughout history. The culture of sports that support heightened physical and verbal violence in the spirit of competition does not "bring out the best" in either the athletes or the spectators.
I must admit that I like watching hockey because of the fights. Certainly it does not teach children good behavior and should not be condoned, but as an adult I enjoy it. As a former athlete, I know that emotions are always high during games and people often act out of character, as can be seen when a team is eliminated in playoffs and most members of the team are crying. Both are an expression of emotions. I can't say that I can condone fighting in hockey but I can understand it. While I don't necessarily think that fighting should be allowed, I do not think that it is a moral or ethical issue so much as an immature peeing match.
ReplyDeleteI find it funny how fighting is allowed in hockey, but doing a dance of joy is not allowed after a touch down is made in a football game. Violence in sports has become normal, people see it as part of the game, or as the players being to competitive with the game. Just think about little league teams and who are the ones who get into fights, the parents. They get so involved with winning and showing who is better that they forget that the point of the sport is to have fun.
ReplyDeleteit's pretty interesting to me that we are talking about the game of Hockey.lol
ReplyDeletei feel that your interest to bring up the fighting is a valid point.
I think one of the main reasons they allow the fighting to happen in hockey, is because of the ratings fights get. This is a sad reality, that our society is mostly drawn to sex, violence, and hatred. Hockey seems like a great sport, but it seems that no one would be able to appreciate it for what it is unless there was fighting involved.
I see the unjust behavior in the professional leadership of sports to allow Hockey players to beat their brains out, while giving them a small slap on the risk and suspending basketball or baseball players for the same behavior.
Something doesnt add up.
I used to work as a Baseball and softball umpire during my late teen years and it was an interesting experience. I had parents cursing at me and other players at 10 year old little league games. I had to eject a coach because he got irate when I asked one of his players to tuck in her shirt (a safety concern since a body part could get tangled on a tag). I have had 12 year olds spit at me and parents cheer when people get hurt. I actually don't mind a certain display of testosterone during athletic competition. Fights during athletic competitions is not an issue that will keep me up at night but I do care whether or not we are a culture that encourages people to resort to violent or vulgar resolutions to problems. It does seem that hockey is one sport that could do more to discourage fighting and promote sportsmanship (a lost value if you ask me). Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to see the Ducks mediating conflict resolution mediations during the game but we should strive to be a culture that values sportsmanship.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, I wonder what people might say to a more gritty example. Say boxing or UFC. These are two regulated sports that are based on aggression and violence. YET, you will often find more restraint and sportsmanship in a UFC fight night then in one hockey game. Does that change anyone’s thoughts on the subject. Just curious.
an interesting approach :)
ReplyDeleteTalking about fighting and penalties...
In many languages there's an interesting expression which says " To deal with Sportive spirit". Is Hokey game considered as a sport? if yes then where's the high moral prinicpals of sports, or high moraality of a sportsman???
Then making fights in the streets is not alowed by the civil law, then is it allowed in a hokey game???
Then let's join hokey teams and be hokey players to regulate or daily problems with people, in order to be judged 10 minutes in stead of ending up in prison...
By Sangjae Lee
ReplyDeleteThank you for your posting Joyce. It's really interesting article. I think the society where we live aggravates fightings, angers, and evils. For example, the combative sports such as UFC, K-1,or Pride becomes famous as boxing did, and such games is getting brutal. There are many channels for the sports, and they are exposed even teenagers. Moreover, the channels tries to show more stimulative games to be a popular program so that they make more money. They look as if they never think that their chilren do not watch the games. I think fighting in NHL games has same background as I mentioned above. It is necessary to cease showing violent programs on TV.
I don't really watch sports. Not my thing. I agree with you that fighting shouldn't be condoned yet I kind of think sports can be overly aggressive in the first place. Not all sports and sometimes it's not even the games that seem aggressive to me; it's the fans. I don't get team loyalty. I understand if it's your school or your someone you know is on the team or even the team of your area and you want to support them. But it becomes so exaggerated into intense rivalries that last generations. Hate towards the opposing team is even taught. Hate over a game?! My undergrad was the sister school of Notre Dame. Practically everyone around me were ND fans. Speaking of fighting: Fighting Irish. It's in their name. ND fans are very loyal even when the team sucks and they hated other teams especially Michigan. Since I don't get into sports this mentality seemed extreme to me but this makes me wonder why societies get so into sports.
ReplyDeleteThere is a TV show called Bones on Fox. It's like CSI. One of the main characters, Brennan is an anthropologist who's an expert in human bones. She is very rational and doesn't fully understand human emotions. She tries to be very objective and rational. One of the episodes centered around an athlete being killed. She started to critique sports to her partner who used to be an athlete and loves sports. She stated that sports are tribal games. They prepare the warriors for battle. But she states that we don't need that anymore because we don't live in tribes anymore. Her partner became very upset by this because he was an athlete. Her reply to him was that he didn't remain in the game. He became a real warrior both in the military and now in the FBI. I don't agree that all sports are similar to tribal military games but the tribalism of the sports fans does sound like that. These are supposed to be games that showcase athletic ability and team work but what result in society is a place for competition and for fighting. Our team vs. your team; our tribe vs. your tribe. Sports are competition i.e. fighting and winning. I agree that we need to value sportsmanship more in our society. Then the focus would hopefully be less on winning and more on the character on conduct of the athletes.
Sinnamon: You make some good points and your logic forces me to think through my perspective on the issue. But there is so much more going on then simple aggression and domination. Competition, and yes even physical competition, also helps to build self confidence, comradery, skill, etc. It can help relieve stress and anxiety--for both those participating and those in attendance. Especially for guys, physical sport (even agression) can often bring people together and resolve conflict. It was wrestling (a very physical, aggressive, and personal sport) that helped to build my self confidence and help be better relate to kids my own age. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think we can try and reduce the focus of sports to "the character and conduct of the athletes" (and maybe you were not arguing that). At least in my view, a proper dose of sportsmanship taught in all sports (and to all ages) should provide the correction we need.
ReplyDeleteEric,
ReplyDeleteI see you point and I can see the benefit of sports but when I look at how fans go crazy that's not what I sense to be going on. I'm not just concerned with what is going on with the athletes. Sometimes I actually think athleticism is being distracted by the societal role sports play especially pro-sports and college sports. I don't understand all the money and intense rivalry (by the fans) surrounding the games. For example ND puts so much focus on their football team because it is football that the alums will give money for. Football is their way of making money because that is what is valued over other things like academia, business, religion, art, etc... all the other valuable things that make up ND. And because football is valued so much winning football is valued so a lot of money goes into recruiting good players and good coaches. So instead of being about athletic skill and building up confidence it seems to be more about money; money fueled by the desire of the fans i.e. alums. Granted some may say that the money gained from the game is used for a lot on campus so it can be viewed as a good things in a way. That may be but I guess what I would appreciate is not just sportsmanship being taught to the athletes but sportsmanship being taught to the fans and those controlling the money.
Joyce, this really is a great subject. Besides the fact that I might actually like hockey if it weren't for the fights, my reason for thinking so is wrapped up in your final paragraph:
ReplyDelete"This can seem like such a frivolous subject, but sometimes it’s the little things that the society tolerates that point to bigger issues. I can’t buy the reason that it’s ok to fight during a hockey game because they are just letting off steam. I think that it is ethical and morally wrong."
I absolutely agree. It's the little things that point to bigger issues. Little things build up into big things. If, as Jesus pointed out, faith as tiny as a mustard seed can move mountains, how much more can little bits of bad behavior grow into huge societal problems?
It makes me think of how I struggle to teach my son the appropriate way to respond to children who tease him or say something hurtful or whatever. He doesn't learn by example as well as most - that's part of the autistic child's difficulty in this world. If my son has not completely memorized and incorporated the "proper" response, or is challenged by a new experience and therefore responds inappropriately, he is disciplined because his behavior is disruptive. Why, then, is it ok for the other child to taunt him quietly until my son responds, then deny any wrongdoing because it was only my son's behavior that was observed? Granted, my son learns a new negative lesson in how not to behave - but the other child continues to think it's ok to tease people because they're different and it's fun to elicit an angry response from the wierd kid.
Now, I know that fighting in hockey games and kids teasing one another are not alike in any way, but what I see as the common denominator is the corporate acceptance of bad behavior because "that's the way it is." "Boys will be boys," they say, and that makes it ok. Does it? Really?
I'm not sure I have an opinion either way on the actual merit of fighting in hockey, but I wanted to post because I agree with Suzanne that it IS the little decisions in life that make up or moral character. This has never been more evident to me than over the last few years I have been a parent. This couldn't be more clear than when, as a foster parent, you see the huge impact small details have on a child's perception of the world. Tiny decisions that you make are observed and processed by children and connections are made that you have no control over. I applaud your courage in bringing this to our attention Joyce, even if people think it's just a 'little thing'.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Hockey games can be violent, I agree, I think other sports are guiltier of violence than hockey alone. Just think of boxing and wrestling. Both of these sport thrive on causing injury to another person. Do you think that these sports are ethical? I have never been able to understand how someone could truly feel satisfied with any activity that causes so much damage to one of God’s loved ones.
ReplyDeleteI think you make an excellent point. When violence becomes an accepted way of life and moves from comedic cartoon violence to realistic movie violence with actors to actual violence occurring in real-time, nothing good results. I'm curious as to which of these has the most negative effect, though.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, consider the way we talk about sports events. We couch them in the same way that we talk about battles or wars victors, losers (no one likes a tie), lots of action, etc. I think there's a lot to be said on the topic.
The real Chris Wickersham,
ReplyDeleteFighting in hockey is defenitely ok at the professional level. The other Chris is dumb!